Stronger Teams & Leadership Insights with Jessper Maquindang

Welcome to the guy who knows a guy podcast.

I'm your host, Michael Whitehouse, the guy who knows the guy himself.

And we are recording live to tape at Potapalooza number 15.

Over the last five years, I've had the privilege of meeting and learning

from thousands of entrepreneurs, experts, and awesome people.

And now I leverage that knowledge to help my clients cut through

the junk and focus on just what they need to achieve their goals.

And I'm excited to meet.

One more awesome person.

Jesper Machmundang is the owner of Familied Management Consulting.

He helps leaders and managers build stronger teams through team

building activities, leadership assessments, and executive coaching.

So Jesper, in your own words, what makes you awesome?

Michael, first off, thank you for having me.

Very excited for our conversation today and the sense of awesomeness I would

say it's the willingness to learn, continuous improvement, continuous growth,

because for me, I grew up just being inspired by this idea of leadership,

and over the years, I've been trying to find out myself what leadership

means to me, and I realize that It's that sense of growing and developing,

not just one, not just a one and done thing, but to be an effective leader.

It's continual growth each day and every day, and I'm committed to that growth

because that's what I'm passionate about.

I love it.

It reminds me of Something someone said once that I've used many times, which

is that entrepreneurship is applied.

Self entrepreneurship is applied personal development and I think leadership

is also applied personal development.

So, um, so tell me more about, you know, some of the work you do.

You said you work with leaders and managers.

This incorporations or this in.

In nonprofits companies, who do you work with?

Absolutely.

So I enjoy working with the essential organizations such as healthcare,

education, finance, technology, because what I've realized is in these fast paced

environments, this sense of teamwork is what really drives innovation.

Because when one leader is taking the reins and running with one single

idea, if it goes wrong, that's.

All eggs in one basket, and that can lead to a dangerous situation.

On the other hand, when you're giving other people the space to

express their voice, be heard, that really gives an opportunity for

everyone to share their perspectives.

And when you have a lot more perspectives put together, there's just a lot more

ways you can really use to move forward instead of putting all your eggs in

one basket and hoping for the best.

On the other hand, you have everyone's help along your journey.

So what are some of the, are there new changes in leadership

or new challenges in leadership?

Now, a quarter of the way into the century, or is it kind of

the same challenges have always been just new organizations

and coming out different ways.

I'd say in recent years, this there's a challenge that's been

really intensified and pandemic.

We've really seen an increase in the world of remote work and hybrid work.

And along the lines within that timeframe, we've seen a higher sense of isolation.

And when people feel isolated, there's this sense that there's less, uh,

less engagement, less productivity.

But on the other hand, when a leader is more intentional about really

helping their team really feel like a team, there's that greatest

sense of motivation and drive.

And when leaders really make that space, they're encouraging their.

Employees, their team members to really grow and develop in that, within that

sense of belonging community togetherness.

So it's really a sense of overcoming that isolation when we're looking

at this rise of remote work and hybrid work in today's society.

So when it comes to remote and hybrid work, do you think that is

a, a positive that just needs to be worked with differently, or do you

think it's net negative that's making it harder to run organizations?

Excellent question.

It can be seen both ways.

Positive because there's a greater sense of flexibility.

You don't have to, especially when you're living in major metropolitan cities, this

commute, you're able to cut down that time and really focus on On your work.

Once you head to your desk and on the other hand, the challenge there is, is the

sense of in person connection when we're looking at today's society pre pandemic.

It was easier for someone to step out of their desk and really

go to another cubicle or office and say, Michael, how you doing?

How was your weekend?

Really?

Would really like to get to know you today.

It's a little bit different in the virtual world.

People have to be more intentional.

It's And actually, I would encourage that intentionality and deliberateness for

people to reach out to others, schedule that into your calendar, instead of

living to chance because again, in today's world, Well, especially with remote

and hybrid, that sense of connection is not the same as it used to be.

And that's, that's a key thing, that intentional connection.

Um, have you seen examples of it done well with, with companies that have gone to

more of a, uh, remote or hybrid structure, still maintaining those connections?

It's really, uh, encouraging that flexibility and really giving.

Employees that opportunity to check in and continue to provide ideas again

when we're working with our teams, leaving them aside and not checking

in with them, not hearing from them.

You really don't know what progress is going to look like.

On the other hand, when, uh, organizations, leaders and managers are

really taking steps to, uh, reach out and continually see, uh, what progress

looks like and giving employees and their people the opportunity to share new ideas.

On how they can move forward.

That's really going to bring a lot of progress into the work that's being done.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think about some of the organizations, the teams I work

with, because we're all remote.

Well, you know, working from home in different states and different

countries, so we're not, there's no office to go into for us.

But I think for a lot of corporations, it was.

It may have been a crutch to have everyone in the same building in the same office.

So the manager could feel like, oh yeah, I see him on his computer,

he must be getting work done.

Oh, I see him on his computer, he's got work done.

Uh, and so, you know, didn't have to be organized.

You just got, thought pops into your head, you walk over, Hey, yeah,

Bob could take care of this for me.

And, uh, When you're online, you have to be more intentional.

You have to schedule the meetings.

You have to schedule the social interaction.

You have to create, whether it's Slack or, or Discord or WhatsApp, whatever,

you have to create the medium for this, this exchange of ideas and not just

rely on, we happen to be in the room.

I saw that with networking groups too, like BNI, a lot of BNI chapters.

When they went virtual, BNI should be phenomenal online.

It's perfectly set up for to, to work on zoom because one person

speaks at a time and y'all take turns and it's perfect for it.

And so many chapters said it was terrible.

I hate it.

It's not working because they weren't doing it right in the first place.

And you take something broken, you put it online and you see

everything that's broken about it.

So have you seen some of that with the, with, you know, a management

environment where the manager.

Is sort of writing off their lack of management skill, um, to virtual.

And so that's what I'm trying to pull people back into the office.

You know, that's very interesting.

And you brought up an interesting theme, the idea of management by walking

around where someone could really just look outside their office and see,

Oh, that person a is on their desk, so they're doing their work person B is

at their desk, so they're doing work now, as far as the disconnect, uh, yes.

And it really highlights that.

For management to be effective, regardless of the environment or the setting,

they still need the right mindset, the right processes, the right structures.

So if their in person management was ineffective in the first

place, it's not going to translate well into other environments.

And then on the other hand, when managers already have great systems and

processes, when it's set to different, again, different settings or different

environments, it might not be perfect the first time, but since that, that

leader manager has already made great strides, It's going to be easier.

It's a course.

Correct.

Yeah, it's one of the challenges and I, I, for the most part of allergic

corporates, I try to stay out of it.

But, um, the, the sense I get from it is that a lot of them don't have clear goals.

They don't have clear.

So, you know, they'll take an employee and they'll say, work on this, work on

this, work on this instead of your job is, uh, you know, by Thursday, I need this.

This project completed, whatever it takes, get it done.

Here's the criteria.

Cause that takes work to plan ahead and figure it out.

And so they say, okay, yeah, create this landing page.

Okay.

Create this webpage.

Okay.

Create this email sequence.

Um, and they have no idea what the big picture is.

So the employee then can't say, well, what if we did it in the other order?

And then we could reuse this because they don't know what they're doing.

But if you can just poke your head out of the door and be like,

Hey, how's that website coming?

Good.

Okay.

Um, but then you go to online and all of a sudden you're like, I

don't know what anyone's doing, which, um, well, you know, ask them.

Um, so, so what, what do you find are, are the, the best practices,

like the, the people who did, who did transition well, um, what was

the, the key to their success?

So the key to success was really understanding and being aware of

their own leadership style and then being aware of the other needs

and, uh, experiences, skills of the people they work with that way.

When they did transition into a different environment, they were ready

to adapt, knowing how they could work.

And how they could work together and just having this knowledge of really

taking your leadership and the skills and experience that you've had as a leader.

That's really important.

Made you effective using those same principles and applying that

again in different places That'll transition better rather than

someone who let's say a leader.

Let's call him Imaginary John he had no idea what he was doing in the first place

And he had he had never taken the time to really understand what his role was

Of course, if you bring him to a remote or hybrid environment, he's still gonna

have no idea of what he's doing, and vice versa, from remote to in person.

Either way, if Imaginary John had taken the time to develop his leadership skills,

keep learning, find ways to become better at what he does, Then regardless, I mean,

it's not going to be perfect the first time if he decides to move to a different

area But it'll be easier for him to find his footing as he moves forward instead of

being completely lost in the first place Yeah, so I know one of the challenges is I

believe they call it the peter principle.

Um that people are You know, promoted to their level of incompetence,

uh, and then this, you know, we're talking about this for, for decades.

Um, do you find that now there's more awareness of that companies are better

about training their managers as they make the managers or is there, is this problem

getting worse because they're trying to save money or a little bit of both?

Yeah.

What are you seeing right now in the industry in terms of

managers being trained in this very unique skill of management?

Yes.

Very unique.

Uh, the Peter principle and It states that people really rise, essentially,

people rise to the level of their failure.

And when it comes to the Peter Principle, it's essentially all over the place.

When organizations invest in the learning, into the development of their

leaders, those people really have a better chance of thriving in their roles.

On the other hand, when organizations make budget cuts and don't include training and

development, As part of their livelihood, that's where you'll see challenges where

leaders are in a sink or swim situation.

And if there's no investment in continual learning, they're going to sink and it's

going to just create challenges for them to really be effective in what they do

and how they can serve their organization.

And are you seeing this?

Do you think there's more awareness now in the need for investing?

In management, I would say, generally, yes, because the value of leadership

development, we're seeing more of a return on investment because

when leaders are getting trained up and sharpen in their skills.

And what they can do, then yes, there is an opportunity for them to get better.

On the other hand, uh, if it's not a priority, of course, uh, these leaders

are going to sink and it's going to be difficult for them to really

move forward with the organization.

Yeah.

So how would these concepts apply to entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, us in

the, us working out of our basements on the internet, um, yeah, do these apply,

or are these just corporate concepts?

Yeah.

Oh, these simply apply to solopreneurs and entrepreneurs, because when it

comes to learning and development, when a solopreneur or entrepreneur

does not really take the time to understand the ins and outs of not

only their business, but themselves, that could create more challenges in

really understanding what to do next.

On the other hand, if a, if an entrepreneur really overcomes that

Peter principle and really applies.

More knowledge development and that growth.

Uh, there's just a better opportunity for that entrepreneur to do greater things.

That makes a lot of sense.

And, and I imagine this also applies with how they manage their teams as well.

Cause a lot of them don't have, you know, nine to five teams, but they have

contractors and, and have to be a lot more cognizant of wasting their time.

Um, I, I, I don't remember who it was.

I remember there was some, some speakers talking about the fact

that anytime there's a meeting that they, he has the managers

calculate what that meeting costs.

So, you know, what is the hourly rate of the people in that room

and how long is it going to be?

And, you know, because if you got someone making 100, 000 a year,

then they're, they're at, that's 100, 000, 50 an hour, I think.

Um, and So, you know, if it's going to be an hour and there's 10 people in the

meeting, well, then that's a 500 meeting.

Is that worth 500 to have that meeting?

Or could you have let some of the people keep working and, you know, applying

this and this is a company where, you know, upper management where these

people are making 100, 200, 300 an hour.

So he'd look at some of these meetings and say, yeah, this meeting costs 4, 700.

And I want a 10X return on everything we do.

So, is this meeting going to make us 47, 000?

No, go back to your desks.

Um, we're not having this meeting.

Uh, because, you know, so many people, they end up being bogged down in

meetings and can't get anything done.

They're doing it, but if you have a contractor, and they're there for an

hour for the meeting, you're paying them.

You know, if their hourly rate's 100, you're actually writing them

a check for 100 for that meeting.

Uh, you learn to get a lot more efficient with meetings.

That's right.

That's an excellent perspective, because when it comes to meeting, uh,

based on my experience, I've seen so many where it's just status report.

Oh, Jesper, what are you doing?

Great.

And then move to the next meeting.

Jesper, what's your progress on this task?

Great.

For meetings to be effective, it should really focus on the purpose

And really, the, what the outcomes they want in the projects that they're

working with, because again, if it's just status updates, you're really

just checking in and you're paying people just to see what they're doing.

On the other hand, if you're looking at overall big picture that you're

striving for and seeing how close you are to getting there, that's where a

meeting makes a lot more value in terms of, What it can provide to the team.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, one of my clients, there is an all hands meeting 30 minutes once a month.

And that all hands meeting is reporting.

Here's where we are with our goals and here's where the company is.

And here's, um, you know, big picture kind of stuff.

Some, sometimes it's stuff that we don't necessarily need to know, but,

you know, Hey, you guys want to see our marketing numbers for our last launch?

We're like, yeah, we want to see it.

And you know, we don't need to know that stuff.

But it's really cool to see that stuff.

And then you feel like you're like, Oh, I was part of that.

Um, and so kind of shares the bigger picture, but that's, I got, you

know, anything else is the people who need to be there are there.

And otherwise, you know, everyone else is, is out of it.

Um, cause you're not paying someone just for being in the office,

which is very, very powerful.

Um, so, so what besides, uh, you know, remote and remote hybrid

home in the office, all that?

Yeah.

Um, what else are you seeing on the horizon?

That's that's affecting management, both in entrepreneurship and in.

Absolutely.

And it's the rise of artificial intelligence and its impact

on leadership and management.

And I would say that artificial intelligence, it is, it does have

amazing capacity and capabilities.

I don't believe it's going to replace effective leaders because when it

comes to artificial intelligence, what it depends on is prompting.

And when it comes to prompting, artificial intelligence is only as intelligence.

As the person using it.

So if you have a nine year old asking for a golden table, a picture of a golden

table, that's all you're really going to get, a picture of a golden table.

On the other hand, that applies, that same thing applies to leaders.

If a leader says, uh, what day should I pack a brown bag lunch?

Again, based on prompting, that's the only result you're going to get.

But for a leader to really be effective, it's to really understand what, uh,

they're striving for, because when it comes to prompting, uh, unless a leader

really knows how to effectively find Um, A sort of programming or understanding

that really elevates their team.

That's only really when artificial intelligence is really

going to be that effective.

Again, when it comes to artificial intelligence, it's only as good as the

prompting as the person applying it.

So as far as replacing leadership, it's not there yet because effective leaders

have a certain way of looking at things.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Talking to someone recently was saying that with their company is it was a

tech company and they'd replace most of their coders with technology, but

is basically a team of prompters.

So it was a team of managers and the managers would manage the AI and

say, I need this built and they would have to give the good instructions.

And so.

What they really needed was really good leaders, managers who knew what

they wanted so they could ask for it because they couldn't just throw sloppy

instructions at the staff and have them clean it up because, uh, so it needs

people who can manage the machines.

Um, but it's replacing the people who are actually doing the work

and it's just managing those.

Um, so I definitely see that, that trend occurring.

Um, and so, so what do you see happening with the people Who were in those jobs

who are now no longer there because the AI is doing that work for them.

That's right, because AI, especially how it's progressing, it's been

able to automate certain things.

But at the same time, if we look at the history of work, automation has

been around in some form or another.

Uh, so it's really a case of Upgrading your skills to stay

ahead of the game, and that's true for the past 200 years of work.

Uh, it's really, when, A new technology presents itself, doesn't

necessarily eliminate jobs, it just ADATs how society works.

oh my gosh, it's going to replace so many admin jobs because the

printer is gonna print things for us.

Well, in reality, although it kind of offset those certain

admin jobs at the same time.

It created a new workforce of technology technicians who can

work on either upgrading or maintaining these printer systems.

So, again, it does not necessarily disrupt.

It just adjust how society works.

Absolutely.

Um, yes, it's been interesting to know about, you know, different concepts of

leadership and and management, how it applies to different, different spaces.

Um, so, if people want to get in touch with you, what's the

best way for them to do that?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Feel free to visit me on my website.

It's familyconsulting.

com and you can also reach out to me on LinkedIn.

I absolutely love conversations about leadership, personal growth,

professional development, team building, workplace culture, you name it.

Feel free to reach out.

I love to have those types of conversations.

Awesome.

That's family lead, like F A M I as in family lead consulting.

com.

And what's your closing thought?

And I would say overall, especially in today's world to be an effective

leader, embrace the idea of connection and belonging, because I, as we've

seen in recent years, uh, this sense of isolation for people to feel a greater

sense of productivity, engagement.

And motivation, especially in the workplace is to be intent, more

intentional about reaching out to people and making them feel as part of your team.

Great.

Well, thank you, Jesper for being a part of this.

It's been awesome.

Your final interview for Potapalooza.

So it's been a great day and I appreciate you being a part of it.

Thank you, Michael.

It was great to be here today.