Launch Like a Pro: Simplify Your Program Launch with Elisa Bogarts

Welcome once again to the guy who knows a guy podcast.

I am your host, Michael Whitehouse, the guy who knows a guy himself,

and we are recording live to tape at Potapalooza number 15.

Over the past five years, I've had the privilege of meeting and learning

from thousands of entrepreneurs, experts, and awesome people.

And now I leverage that knowledge to help my clients cut through the junk and focus

on what they need to achieve their goals.

Now I'm excited to introduce our next guest, at least, uh, Hoogertz.

Did I say that right?

Bogarts.

Yeah, I even knew that because I've known Elisa for a while and she's

corrected me and then I recorrect myself away from the correct Bogarts.

It's the easy pronunciation, not the weird pronunciation.

Yeah, it looks like Boogarats, but

I'm, I'm drawn to the weird.

Um, but so Elisa is a launch manager.

So she helps coaches launch their programs, events with ease.

They can focus on scaling their business.

So she does the technical stuff.

With her experience in project management and coaching to get

her clients ready to launch.

And so she does all the techie stuff.

So, you know, I do the networking stuff.

She does the techie stuff and, uh, there's a natural synergy there.

So Lisa, welcome to the show.

Hey, Michael, thank you so much for having me.

Great to be on here.

I love that we're doing this.

Yeah.

Considering how long we've known each other, it's great to.

Do a podcast exchange, which is awesome.

Absolutely.

Uh, and of course we met in person recently at the marketer's

cruise down near the Caribbean.

Also very cool.

I was looking at the map.

I think technically we're in the Atlantic because the Caribbean

is south of the islands.

And North of the islands would be the Atlantic, but in near, I don't know,

change the names of everything anyway.

So, so tell me a bit about what you do as a launch manager.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I, like you were saying, I work with, with coaches, like to work with coaches

specifically and help them launch.

I it's, it's really so that, you know, I, and I work with people who also have.

Teams and I help them, like I make sure everybody's on task.

I'd like to do like strategizing with the coach and planning and then

making sure that everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing

when they're supposed to be doing it.

Because usually the coach wants to be out speaking and selling and coaching and

not really worrying about, you know, is everything getting done for their launch.

Um, and I do this because I was, uh, in my corporate career, I was a project manager.

So I was a project, I've been in project management now for about 15

years and decided to bring all of those skills into the coaching world.

Cause I know that, you know, that's not something that everybody has.

And, uh, you know, I feel like so many coaches are, you know, such a visionary

people or like ideas people, or they just want to creatives or healers,

you know, but they're not the best at being organizing, planning, you know,

structure, all that kind of stuff.

And that's really, that's my wheelhouse.

So I hope to bring that into the world and I really feel that it helps Kind of calm

the chaos of launching because, you know, launching, there's, there's a lot to do.

Well, you know, I mean, you do summits all the time.

Like it is a lot of work, all the wrangling, though you have an amazing

tool that you use, but even with that, there's still a, you know, a

lot of work to be done and it can be really overwhelming for people.

So I helped one of my superpowers is to make things this sort of

big, complex, you know, project or launch, which could have, like, I

have a project plan that's like over.

It's almost 300 tasks long.

And so if someone's seeing that, they might be like, so, so, but I

helped them get this big complex thing and just bring it down to

these really easy manageable chunks.

And they just say, okay, focus on this right now.

This is what we're going to do.

Trust the process.

We'll get there and it'll get done.

So, and I've done all my own programs, gift giveaways, summits, book,

podcast that I've launched myself.

So, uh, and I've meticulously planned all of them.

So

yes, there's a. There's a concept and it's probably from some book that I

don't know, but somebody mentioned the idea of visionaries versus integrators,

um, which is also the CEO, COO dynamic.

So the CEO is the visionary, the, you know, here's what we're doing.

It's a five year plan.

And then the COO is the one who says, okay, well, we're going to

need to hire 300 people for this.

So we're going to need a warehouse or a new ship or any, you

know, whatever the tools are.

So some people may be hearing that and be, and say, okay, yeah,

I kind of get what, you know,

But let's, let's look at the contra example.

So if somebody doesn't have you, what can go wrong for not

having Elisa on their team?

Uh, well, I think it can get a bit chaotic and I think that things

can get missed as well sometimes.

And also I think that people don't start early enough, like, especially

with, you know, if you're going to, um, as part of your launch, if you want

To help promote the event that you're doing, you know, you want to start

building those relationships with those, you know, that could be JV partners

or promotional partners, affiliates, whatever you want to call them.

Um, you want to engage them early and so some people don't

start thinking about that.

Like, oh, my launch is in 6 weeks time and they think that's good enough.

But like, if you go to your partners, that may not be enough time.

Their calendar may be full already.

So then you won't get, you may not.

And because of that, you may not get enough people.

To your event in which to pitch your program to.

And so I think things like that, like not starting early enough and not

knowing all of those pieces and, and the order in which they should be going.

Um, because then I think, yeah, a lot of stuff can get missed.

And then if things get missed, then, um, you know, yeah, maybe people don't show

up or, uh, you know, the launches isn't as successful as it could be, because

you didn't think of all those pieces, you didn't think about, um, the order

in which they should go and, uh, yeah, and starting early To get it all done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm always amazed when people reach out to me and say, Hey,

yeah, my launch is in three weeks.

Can you promote it?

And I'm like, well, I mean, now with my resource letter, I'm, I can say, Oh,

I can put it in the resource letter.

Sure.

But, you know, you want dedicated promotion, uh, or, or people who they're

at an event and say, I have a, I have a launch coming up in three weeks.

I'm looking for a promoter.

She's like, good for you.

That's a nice to have dreams, but no stranger is going to promote your

launches coming up in three weeks, unless they're really, really impressed by you.

Right, exactly.

And you really want to build that relationship with people.

And, and yeah, because even with me, like I had a, someone I met in a networking

event and then they came to me later, we, we met up and it was like, okay,

yeah, maybe we could promote each other, but then kind of didn't work.

So they weren't ready for me yet or something.

And then like, Oh, well, could you just promote, like sell this product for us?

And I was like, actually, no, because I don't know you.

I don't.

And I was actually speaking to a JV manager, not even the coach itself.

So I was like, I've never met this person.

I haven't seen their work.

I haven't, you know, so no, I don't feel comfortable in

selling your product quite yet.

And so you really need to take that time to build a relationship that,

you know, let people see what you're all about, even come to your event,

you know, give them a free ticket to something so they can see what you're

all about and then, then they'll want to, then they'll like, you know, they

will know, love and trust you and want to promote you and, uh, And, and, you

know, share your wisdom with their people.

Yeah.

And I like you said there about, you know, your event is their first taste of

getting the sense of working with you.

One mistake that, that I see a lot is if you just see your

event as a sales opportunity.

And in other words, You know, if I'm a salesman, we get

on a call and you don't buy.

We just both waste our time.

And so if you make your webinar or your event or whatever, like that, that it's

all pitch and it's not about making connections, not about providing value,

teaching, uh, making them better off, then people are going to leave your

event and say, I just wasted my time.

And if they come back to, if I promote it, they come back to me and I say, Hey, yeah,

how was, you know, how was Joe's webinar?

And they said, eh, I didn't, I don't know.

Did you learn anything?

Not really.

It was really very pitchy.

I'm never promoting it again.

Because I am, I am asking my audience to pay their time to attend this event.

And time ain't free.

Time is the most expensive thing you got.

Yeah, 100 percent agree with you on that.

And I hate that too.

Like I hate when I go to something and think like, like that kind

of, yeah, that wasted my time.

And, and, um, and then we always get taught, I found in a lot of coaching

programs, you know, that if you're going to do like a webinar or something

to only teach the what, but never the how, and I don't love that as well.

Like, I don't think obviously you don't need to teach someone.

Everything about the house is like, why would they then buy your program?

But you can still give them exercises.

You can still teach them some things.

You can teach them maybe things around what your program's about to

still really provide value with that.

And yeah, that even as you are doing that event.

You know, it all kind of leads to what you are selling, but you

don't need to constantly be in it.

And that's why I created this program.

And that's why I created this program.

You don't need it to be constantly pitching about it.

I think people will kind of get it because that'll be like the natural flow.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I even had that with, uh, one of my partners recently were thinking

of doing something together and she gave me an outline and I was like, Oh,

that just sounded entirely pitchy to me.

There was like no, no value to it.

Yeah.

And her, um, kind of viewpoint was that, well, we don't want to overwhelm people.

And I get that.

I think that there's a bit of a balance between, you know, but you still want

to provide value and you want people to leave with something because if you

don't give them anything, why would they think that they're going to,

why would they pay for your program?

If they don't think you're actually going to give them anything, if you

never give them anything to start with.

I think there's a benefit in overwhelming done the right way.

So, like, if you were to do a workshop and you were going to, and you

were to say, I'm going to teach you everything that goes into a launch.

You know, if you have a 300 item, yeah, your workshop would be nine hours long,

but , but you do it in, in categories.

You're basically like, all right, so here's what you

need to know to find partners.

Here's what you need to know to set up the copy, and here's what you need to know

for this, and da da, and, and you know, at the beginning you tell 'em, you can drink

outta the fire hose gonna be intensive.

And they're like, okay, yeah, I'm ready.

I got my notes.

And then you, you just fire hose them.

And then at the end they're like, whoa.

Then you say, so do you want to do that yourself?

Or would you like to hire me to do it for you?

And they're like, uh, you, you should do it, but you, you know, you delivered

everything that they asked for.

Um, yeah.

And I, I think for, for most, I think this myth, a lot of coaches have

that they have some secret sauce.

You read the same books I did, and you watch the same YouTube videos I did.

There's no secrets to us.

There's only one secret to manifestation.

There's only one secret to business growth.

And usually it's get in front of the right customers, offer them

a valuable product, and deliver.

Like, that's the model of business.

There's no secret.

We've been doing this for thousands of years.

And so it's rarely the information.

It's usually the implementation, the transformation.

So you can teach them everything.

Like if you teach them everything, you know, they'd be

like, Whoa, you know, too much.

That's what I do.

When I, when I talk about running so much for people, like I'll tell you

everything, you know, to run a summit and you don't want to do it because

knowing everything I'm going to teach you, you're still gonna have to screw

up 10 times to get to the point I'm at.

So you're gonna have to run 10 summits wrong and then you can do it yourself.

You'll be great and do everything I do.

Oh, by the way, it takes me about 10 hours.

Plus I have a network.

Do you have a network?

No, you don't.

Okay.

So you're going to need to build that.

That's going to take about 500 hours.

So yeah, I'll teach you everything.

Do it yourself.

Go for it.

It'll take you a mere.

600 hours and you'll be exactly where I am.

So no, you want me to do that?

You sure?

Yeah.

I've even done that too, where some people are like, Oh, I don't know if

I'm like ready to work with you yet.

And I was like, okay, well, you know, if you want some help with it, you can,

I have like my sort of project plan, my launch plan, or even have a summit plan,

you know, and it's like, it's basically a Google sheet because that can be like used

for everything, you know, not everybody.

No, it was no Shan or Asana or whatever, but everybody can access Google sheets

and it's got all these different tabs.

And then I've had people come back to me being like, your plan is too crazy for me.

I need your help now.

And I was like, yeah, I mean, it literally tells you every

single thing you need to do.

Um, but then just looking at that, they're just like, what?

Okay.

Now, now I need some help.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that, and that's, and that, that's key.

And I think that's powerful in the, in the initial sales process.

When you take them through everything they're going to need to do.

Um, now there might, there might be certain things that you hold back.

If it's like a formula or an investment strategy or something like that, they

said, okay, that you learned in the program, but the rest of it, usually

you can just teach them everything.

And, and then they're going to look at it.

I actually, I haven't published it yet, but I've written a book on everything.

I know about collaborations and partnerships.

And it's 57, 000 words long and I haven't finished.

So it'd be like 60, 000 words.

So that's 250 pages or something.

Um, and when I publish it, I'm published two versions and one of them be

whatever I'm going to call the book, you know, the guide to partnerships.

And the other one, the cover is going to be something like this book is too long

and you're not gonna read it anyway.

It's just hire me to do it for you.

I'll mail it to people.

And that's what the cover will say.

Everything I know is in here, but you don't want to read it.

Just hire me to do it for you.

And I love what you said earlier too, about the mistakes

that you make along the way.

And I think that that's something that I sort of both of us bring,

like we already had the experience.

So therefore we know the flow.

And even the way that my brain sort of works, like when I was first launching

my podcast, yes, I took a course.

I knew what exactly what to do, but I remember sitting there and being like,

okay, I actually take the time to sit down and be like, what is the flow here?

And I don't think that many people do that.

You know, I actually think, okay, if I. And bringing a guest

on what information do I need?

How am I going to get that from that person?

Like, you know, and if I'm publishing it, okay, what information do I need?

And do I need to get that first, you know, and actually like going through it step

by step and like tweaking and changing all the different steps as I go to really like

piece it out and, um, Yeah, so I think that that's something that also one of

my kind of superpowers that sort of that process and really just taking the time to

and I, I tell people to do this, you know, to sit down and do it, but I just don't

think everybody's brain works that way.

And so you can kind of kind of trust and same with you, right?

You've done that with the summits.

And so you can trust like, you know, I know this whole process.

I know it step by step.

I know the right things and I've tweaked in and continually

improved every single summit.

Yeah, and I think that's key there, too, that not only is it going to

be a headache for you if you don't collect the headshots, or you don't

collect the this, or you don't have the copy, but also, this may be

someone's first real impression of you.

You know, I've met someone, and, because there's so many people I've basically lost

professional respect for promoting them.

Because, you know, I met them.

I believe they're ethical.

I believe they are attempting to provide value.

They're good people.

But then I say, yeah, sure.

I'll, I'll promote you or I'll speak on your stage.

I hardly ever speak in anyone else's stage.

Cause they all drive me nuts.

Um, and because, you know, I'll be like, yeah, sure.

I'll promote you or whatever.

Everybody.

So do you have the copy?

Uh, no, we don't have it yet.

Well, you're expecting me to start mailing for this in a week and a half.

I'm writing my emails for then.

Now I'm going to need that copy.

Now, because I'm not just cutting and pasting your copy, so I'm

going to need that material.

Do you have the sales page?

Oh, no, you can't click on the sales page until it's the sales page is

locked until the day of the event.

I'm like, okay, do you have anything I can use?

And I'm chasing around for this information and.

I'm like, if I'm going to do this much work, I'll sell my own program,

right?

Yeah,

that's the other, that's a really key thing is make it easy for them.

Make it so easy.

Give them one place where it has the graphics that has the swipe copy that

they can just use and make it available early on so that they can do it.

Yeah.

I have that with one of my clients who's just like, oh,

we'll just do it just in time.

Oh, do we really need to give it to them a week early?

I'm like, yes, we 100 percent do.

We need to work on that right now.

Like I needed that last week because actually I wanted to send

it today, but we haven't even started writing this by Floppy yet.

And so, um, yeah, so I think that some people just kind of,

they don't really think that way.

And I think they, they don't, um, maybe consider how other people work, right?

Like you were saying, I like to, Take your copy, make it my own.

And I like to schedule my emails a week or two in advance.

And some people do it the day of, you know, so everybody

kind of works differently.

And I think that you need to consider that when you're getting things ready,

which is part of the launch plan, right?

When you're working with your JVs, it's not only like interacting

with them, but also getting that swipe copy and everything ready

so that they're good to go.

And then also, you know, reminding them being like, Hey, promo starts today.

Remember to send your email.

The irony, of course, is sometimes, as I've worked with some of these

people too, where they're going to get the copy out the day before.

But if you reach out to them and say, hey, could you promote my event in six months?

Oh, sorry, our calendar's full.

So you expect me to jump for yours, but you're planning 14 months out

for, for promoting other people.

Got it.

Okay.

Sure.

Yeah.

Um, because they don't even, they don't even doesn't occur to them

to think about themselves on the other side of the same situation.

You know, could I, I've met so many people who could not

promote a mirror of themselves.

They would not be a good partner for themselves because, you

know, they, the materials they need, they wouldn't have in time.

Um, yeah, something I was on my summits is, it's, it's always funny

when people ask me, so what's the promotion window for the summit?

I'm like, you have a link now, but the summit is three months from now.

Like, okay, that's up to you.

But because I always felt this as if, if it's an event, you know, when

I, when I ran sci fi conventions, you would announce the next one

at the end of the previous one.

Right.

tickets right there for a year later.

Because you're blocking this time out.

So if you're running a three day event, what are you doing?

Announcing it eight days in advance?

Who's going to just have three days time available.

Well, you know, broke people do people who don't really have a business

and a professional summit attenders.

They got time for that, but

people are going to be

dropping 10, 000 in a program.

They got they're busy.

They got businesses like they, they, they need to know about

things six months in advance, especially if it's really an event.

So,

yeah.

Yeah.

And if it's an in person one, even like sooner, like that's like a good, at

least eight months of planning, I would say, and you want to get people in that.

And I think what, with retreats too, you want to give people as well, eight, 10

months, if they, if they're going to be traveling somewhere and it's a retreat

and it's like a week or something, you need to be giving them a lot of time.

Yeah.

I remember the first time I realized that people will go

to a live event within 30 days.

I'm like, people do that.

Really?

Yeah.

Like, wow.

Like, I, I, it's always kind of in my head, like, well, obviously you need at

least four months to get a plane ticket.

Right.

The fact that you can go out, you can buy a plane ticket

for, you know, next Tuesday.

Is possible.

Oh, I guess you can.

You can.

Yeah.

Might cost

you.

But it was, it was just such a, you know, because of me for a live event,

if I'm traveling to it, I'm planning six months out, eight months out.

And, you know, to look at their marketing, oh, we don't even tell people

the date of it until three months out.

What?

It's like, it's like a, like a secret, uh, you know, secret speakeasy or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

So that's, I

think it does make sense.

Yeah.

And I think depending on the launch, the promotional period is different,

you know, if it is just like sort of like a 60 minute webinar.

Yeah.

You know, if you get somebody to sign up months in advance, they'll

likely forget and not show up.

Yeah.

Um, so that kind of can be shorter.

That can be more like 10 days, seven days.

And even sometimes people join the day before, you know, they'd

be like, Oh, that's tomorrow.

Okay.

I got time at nine o'clock.

That's fine.

I can, you know, squeeze in an hour, move things around in my schedule.

So that's, that's a little bit easier, but yeah, if it's an in person or requires

travel, um, or it's a multi day, you got to give them more notice for sure.

Yeah.

I was talking to Chuck Anderson a while ago and cause a lot of

people say, well, we promote late because the show rate is higher.

And he says, that is true.

That data is absolutely correct.

Okay.

But the data most people don't measure is closing rate.

So the show rate is higher.

The later someone promotes later, someone signs up.

But the closing rate, like the percentage chance they buy is higher.

The earlier they sign up.

Oh, interesting.

So if someone signs up five weeks in advance, the chance they're

going to show up as much lower.

But if they do show up, the chance that person's going to buy is

much higher because they're busy enough that they need to do it.

And they're organized enough.

Like if I sign up for an event in two months from now, I'm

putting it on my calendar.

I don't forget it's on my calendar.

I mean, I do forget you'd tell me the next day.

I don't remember what I signed up for.

I don't know tomorrow, let alone next week, but my calendar knows what I'm

doing because, you know, I, I didn't just sign up and say, Oh yeah, I'll do

something on the April and you know, it goes on the calendar so I could

sign up for a year from now and I'm not going to forget it's happening.

It's on the calendar.

Yeah.

The fact that people forget a webinar, they sign up like, how'd you forget?

Didn't you?

But all I put on a post it note, like, so you don't have a

business as you're telling me.

Got it.

Um, the people who, who, you know, need to be reminded the day before probably

aren't great prospects because how big can their business be if they're

running on post it notes and, and ideas.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, this is essentially this conversation that reveals the, the interplay

between the tech side of a launch.

And the network side of a launch because bad systems will ruin relationships.

Very good point.

Not necessarily like,

I don't like you anymore, but like, I don't promote this person anymore.

It's too much trouble.

And, um, or they can't convert, you know, people I've sent them, send them 50 opt

ins and no, and no money comes back.

I'm like, I sent you 50 people, but I've had, I've had people tell me that,

yeah, we, we find that if we, uh, People tell me that industry average is two to

three percent of total opt ins convert.

Okay,

right.

Which sounds terrible.

It does sound terrible.

If I send you 50 people, zero to one conversion, um, which means a decent

chance, if I send 50 opt ins and I get zero dollars, that seems like

less than the number of dollars I was hoping for that amount of effort.

Mm hmm.

Yes, that's true.

And I'm sure you find it as well, like, in terms of, you know, I'm Working with

people, especially when a summit, I find that as it's kind of like a, you're

sort of herding the cats and getting all the information from the speakers.

And then you have people with like their links don't work at all.

And I'm like, it drives me kind of crazy sometimes.

I think just give me a URL.

All I need is the title of your gift.

In the URL and you should click it and it should work and it should be so simple.

And so sometimes when I have to, you know, like as the, the organizer, the

project manager, I've had to go back and forth with someone like 10 times to

get this work linking, uh, working link.

Um, I may think, you know, I don't know if I want you in my next summit just because.

This, this cost me a lot of time

to get your link.

I'm a big fan of what I call tactical, tactical, tactical laziness.

So identifying what is important, what is not important.

Like, I don't check the links of any of my speakers.

They put a link in, there it is.

If someone in the event says, hey, this link isn't working, then I'll say, hey,

you should give me a link that works.

Because the gift not working isn't my problem, it's their problem.

Yes, I've already got the opt in.

That person already

opted into my summit, I've already got their email address.

You want their email address, you better make your link work.

And if you have a link that's not going to be good six months from now when, you

know, someone who's in my inner circle that gets access to the old VIP pages.

Well, that's a you problem, not a me problem and, and same thing, but

yeah, yeah, I've some definitely have some speakers who, um, yeah,

I, I am not interested in spending a lot of time with a speaker.

Um, I want you to get, you know, put in the application, get on

the same, same thing, the podcast.

When I, when I do the podcast, when it's not Potapalooza, I have a calendar link.

It's, everything's there except for the headshot, because you can't do

that.

So everything's there.

So it's all right there.

If they fill out the application, they don't include a bio.

I canceled the meeting.

Like, I don't have the information.

So you don't get a time until I got your info.

Um, and so a lot of it's just, you know, preloading.

It's funny when I get on someone's podcast, they say,

yeah, okay, now I need this.

Now I need that.

I'm like, didn't I already send you that?

Why are there extra steps?

I fill out the application.

I show up and say smart things.

I go home.

That's the podcast process.

If there's more steps, it's really quite that simple.

It was on cartridge, eight page long application, and then the validation

field for the phone number would not accept anything I could think of.

It wouldn't accept all numbers.

It wouldn't accept dashes.

It wouldn't accept, like, I couldn't figure out how to get it to accept

the phone number, which means it wouldn't accept the entire application.

Well,

And I emailed them and I'm like, uh, yeah, I, and I said, I need to

know the validation format for the phone number, which I was hoping

that understand what that meant.

And of course they didn't.

They said, Oh, I'll check with my tech team.

It's carter.

You don't need a tech team to set up a form.

You should understand how your form works and tell me what I need to put into it.

So I can put it in so I can hit submit.

Like, Oh, we'll get back to you all

the seven pages.

And I'm like, well, I'm not filling this out again.

Like, Oh yeah, I'll let you know what is fixed.

My good.

That'll help for your next guest.

Cause it's not going to be me.

I've already invested more time in this podcast than it

is worth making it easy for me.

So

absolutely.

Speaking of time, I need to let you go so you can get on the next show.

Um, so final thoughts and of course, how do people get in touch with you

and learn about your techie stuff?

Yeah, so my, um, well, final words is, you know, kind of thinking about what

we're doing today is really take the time to make sure that you, you know,

do things right when you are launching, because it can take a lot of work.

So make sure to be kind to yourself and give yourself enough time to do

everything that needs to get done.

And yeah, you can find me at, my website is inspirationbyalisa.

com.

So it's, it's all one word inspiration by Elisa and Elisa is E L I S A dot com.

And in there, yeah, you can get links to my podcast as well, which

is authentically Elisa, which I'm going to have Michael on soon.

And, um, and yeah, and, and, uh, information about my services.

Fantastic.

It says inspiration by Elisa.

It's like Lisa on the internet.

E Lisa.

Inspiration by Elisa dot com where you'll find all of Elisa Bogart's

things and I said it right this time.

You did.

very much.

But right now I remember, um, And yeah, I love, you have all

kinds of great concepts in there.

Very important, simple, but powerful tools.

Give yourself more time than you think you need is probably the most important

thing that you said right there at the end, because however long you think

it's going to take, it will take longer.

It will

really good stuff and great to have you on.

I look forward to being on your show.

Thank you so much, Michael.

It's great being on your show.

Thank you.