Amanda Abella: Make Money Your Honey

Welcome back to the guy who knows a guy podcast.

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We're so excited to be back with you.

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And this season we are counting

down to J V connect the first of its

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This is going to be an incredible

dedicated networking event, and you

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are going to want to be part of it.

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And this podcast here to help

prepare you to get the most

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out of this incredible event.

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I'm Michael Whitehouse,

the guy who knows a guy.

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And over the next few weeks, you're going

to get to hear from some of the best

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people in the industry about networking.

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As well as some solo training from me.

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So be sure to join us on December

12th to 14th for JB Connect.

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And now, let's get to the interview.

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Welcome once again to the

guy who knows a guy podcast.

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I, as always, I'm your host, Michael

Whitehouse, the guy who knows a guy.

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And our guest today is Amanda Abea.

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Amanda is an award winning content

creator, keynote speaker and business

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coach who specializes in helping

business owners activate their

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persuasion prowess so they can make more

money and live a more affluent life.

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Her clients go from hating sales

and marketing to achieving 90.

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Is that right?

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That's not a typo.

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It's 90%.

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Amanda Abella: It's 90%.

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Yes.

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Michael Whitehouse: Wow.

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90 percent close rates and closing

multiple five figure deals.

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Her work has been featured in

Forbes, Huffington Post, Business

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Insider, Univision, and many more.

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Prior to teaching marketing and

sales, Amanda spent a decade as a

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financial writer and wrote content

for companies like Wells Fargo,

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Discover, Credit Karma, Santander.

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It's not Sant Sant Santanday.

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I think depends on what country you're in.

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Okay, Santander, you know which bank

I'm talking about the red one and more.

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She's also partnered with companies

like Capital One and TransUnion

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and financial education campaigns.

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So welcome to the show.

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Thank you for giving me a bio that gave

us something to talk about already.

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And how are you doing today?

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Amanda Abella: I'm doing super well.

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I mean, I was like, Oh dang, I got

to add to the bio, which is now, you

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know, I'm living in Mexico, which

I found the Santander thing funny.

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Cause that's literally the bank I have to

go to, to withdraw cash with the lowest,

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um, fee for American dollar to pay.

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So, so I was like, Oh yeah, that

bank, I used to write for them and

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I literally go there every week.

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Michael Whitehouse: There you go.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I work with a credit union that I've.

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I've done some work for them.

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Um, not the level you have, but

I've done some networking coaching

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for them and speaking, uh, and

like, I know most of their staff.

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So I figure I'll bank with

the people who I know everyone

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from the manager up to the CEO.

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That seems like the, the way a

networker should be doing is banking.

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Amanda Abella: Yeah, and actually

in that 1st business where I was

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working with a lot of banks, it was

mostly networking that got me those

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deals because none of those banks

were going to go through a funnel.

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You know, now it's a little bit different

because I have digital programs.

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Um, and there was a reason

for that because that business

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model was more scalable.

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Whereas my 1st business was not,

but in my 1st business, when I was

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doing content marketing for financial

companies, or I would get hired as a

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Spokesperson for campaigns like for

trans union, which you could find

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the videos on YouTube somewhere.

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Um, then most of that was

like, who do you know?

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Networking.

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There was a big event.

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We would go to every year for money

and media and I book myself out

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for a year, but a lot of it was

networking cold pitching good old

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fashioned sales and relationships.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

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So, so you didn't start

with a network, right?

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You didn't like go to Harvard

and meet everyone you know,

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and that, that puts you in.

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Amanda Abella: No, I went to like some

tiny Catholic school in Southwest Florida.

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No one's ever heard of.

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There were 80 people

in my graduating class.

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Michael Whitehouse: Wow.

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So let's start from there.

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How did you go from tiny school to

networking your way to jobs with

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Wells Fargo and Discover and Credit

Karma and the one I can't pronounce?

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Amanda Abella: Yeah, so funny story.

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couldn't find a job.

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So I hear a lot of the people complaining

now about all the economic stuff

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going on in the United States, very

different hearing it when you're living

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in another country, but I digress.

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But I'm hearing all those stories.

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I'm like, dang, this sounds

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again, different circumstances,

but people still struggling.

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Um, and I, I was one of those,

like, I went six months without

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being able to find a job.

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I had a literature degree.

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I'd gone to like this.

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I, I grew up Catholic, so I got

basically sent to a Catholic school.

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Um, and it was a liberal arts degree,

which I now realize gave me the

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foundation to do the things that I do now.

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Mm-Hmm.

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But back then, right, I was like,

what the hell am I supposed to do

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with this ? Um, so I couldn't find

a job, but what I essentially did is

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I Googled how to make money writing.

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That's literally how this all started.

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It started with a Google search how to

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And it was literally just

clawing my way and like, 12 hours

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reading everything on Google.

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I could get my hands on and I was just

so determined to make something work

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that, you know, 1 thing led to another.

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I experimented for a few years,

eventually really nailed down on the

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financial niche because I was interested.

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In money because I sucked at it.

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Um, and I figured, well, if I get paid to

learn about it, that sounds pretty smart.

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So why don't I just go do that?

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Um, and none of us knew at the time that

the financial blogging and the financial

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writing niche was going to like take off.

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So here's something interesting.

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Whenever financial issues start happening

in the United States, people become

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a lot more interested in finance.

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So it was just kind of

a good timing thing.

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That now I can see opportunity, but

back then I had no idea how to do that.

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I just got lucky, I guess.

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Um, and you know, it was just like one

and I started making friends on Twitter.

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Twitter was like the place to be if you

were a financial blogger back in the day.

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And then, you know, we all started

getting together, putting on

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networking events because geeking

out over money and blogging about it.

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And then that turned into a massive

conference that turned into, um,

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not that I put on, but that the

community put on that turned into

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a lot of us who had started early.

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Literally banks were our clients.

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I mean, it was to the point where they

would like, throw parties for us once a

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year and then that we would like, mingle

with all the financial companies and

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then they needed content because people

were searching for financial information.

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And then that's how I kind of also

started learning about marketing was.

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By doing it.

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And what I didn't realize was

that I was doing sales, right?

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So I was like pitching ideas.

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I was meeting people at events.

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I was going to every event.

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I could get my hands

on every Twitter chat.

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Do you remember Twitter chats?

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Are they even still a thing?

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Right?

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Twitter chats.

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Back in the day and finance were

like, you know, you would follow it.

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It was like a certain time you would get

on Twitter and it was a certain topic and

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then everyone would follow the hashtag and

then you would be able to follow the chat.

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Yeah, I'm dating myself right now.

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Right.

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So we would do like these Twitter chats,

and I would make sure to get on every

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Twitter chat I could get my hands on.

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Back in the day and I made

a lot of friends, um, many

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of which are still friends.

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I just interviewed one of them on my

podcast and we've known each other

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for 10 years since our finance days.

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Um, and that's how I

built my first business.

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It was, you know, learning content

marketing from the ground up.

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It was sales and not knowing that I

was selling and it was networking.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yeah.

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And I think there's a couple

of things I hear in that.

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The first is you, you knew

what you were trying to do.

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So you didn't say, Oh, there's no jobs.

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I'll just go on monster and deed again

and send out some more applications.

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Amanda Abella: Oh, I tried that, you

know, and I did eventually get jobs

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because I got the typical immigrant

to America story, you know, you go to

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school and you go get a steady job.

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I didn't know that I could

like make a whole business.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

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Um, but yeah, obviously that didn't

get you where you were going, but, but

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you know, you're focused on, I want to.

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Right.

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I want to do finance and you weren't

thinking about, okay, where can I

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make a million dollars or where can

I, it's just, I want to do this thing.

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You networked, you weren't

trying to sell them.

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You weren't trying to

get something from them.

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You're just, I'm into finance writing.

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You're into finance, right?

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And let's hang out and talk

about finance and writing.

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Amanda Abella: And pretty much

that's exactly what it was.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

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And that's, and that, that's

really powerful networking.

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Cause you're not, you know, that's

where networking goes wrong.

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If people come in, they're like,

buy my thing, promote my thing,

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buy my thing, promote my thing.

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Instead of we have this and

that in common, you know, the

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higher levels of networking,

which is often those masterminds.

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That's the, they're not selling to each

other and asking each other to promote.

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They're sharing ideas.

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They're sharing experience and knowledge.

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And that's what you were doing.

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Um, and, and obviously that led to a

lot more and a lot more success, but I

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think that's a great story for anyone

listening saying, you know, well, how

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can I network if I'm not starting with

the right, the right thing now, one

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of the dimensions, you know, Twitter

chats, which is no longer a thing.

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Um, so that's one of the challenges,

the, the Internet shifting.

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So the places where

the connections happen.

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aren't the same.

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Um, for, for someone up and coming, do you

have an idea of where, where they might be

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able to find connections and opportunity?

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Amanda Abella: Well, I'd say for up

and coming, it's the same, right?

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It's social media and it's content.

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It's just the way in which we're using

social media and content has changed

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dramatically since, you know, I'm

talking, I think, seven, eight years ago.

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Yeah.

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But the concepts are still the same.

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Um, in fact, I would venture to say it's

probably easier now in a lot of ways,

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because we have a lot of tools now that

can help us that we didn't have back then.

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Um, my partner and I are in the process.

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We're starting a 2nd brand

called entrepreneur expat.

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Um, because we are expats and there's

been a lot of interest for my community

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on being an expat, but we're smart

business people and we're like, oh, okay.

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Well, only a small

portion of our community.

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Current community is into that.

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We're going to make a

whole separate brand.

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For them, that's what we're going to do.

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Um, so we're in the process of starting

the second one and we were both noting

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because he's been in digital marketing

as long as I have, and we were both

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noting like how much easier it is now

in a lot of ways because you have tools

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that can tell you what keywords to use.

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There's tons of experts that you can

follow on Instagram that tell you how

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to put together a good performing reel.

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To get attention.

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None of that stuff existed back

then because it was like the wild,

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wild West and it was a new thing and

no one knew what they were doing.

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Yes.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

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Yeah.

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And as a, as a thing about it, like

you were saying, you're finding

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these, these interest chats.

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I feel like some of it now is in the

comments of different people's posts.

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So if you find people or the

influencers in the space, you engage

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in the comments and reply to people's

comments in the comments and there's no

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Twitter chats anymore, but there are.

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Posts with comment threads where

you can connect people there.

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Uh, whether it's LinkedIn or Facebook

or, uh, TikTok's not quite as good

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with 80 characters, but LinkedIn

and Facebook are pretty good for

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those, those kinds of exchanges.

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Amanda Abella: Yeah, I would,

I would absolutely agree.

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I mean, a lot of the networking I've

done, you know, during the pandemic and

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things like that, it was interesting.

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I noticed it was like all on Facebook.

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It was all in Facebook groups.

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It was all in the Facebook DMs.

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Um, even now, to a certain

degree, it is Facebook.

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Now that I'm getting back on my

content game because I just am able to

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breathe after this house renovation,

um, craziness going on over here.

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Um, but I'm able to get back into

it and I'm focusing really on video.

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So, you know, Facebook, Instagram.

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YouTube and TikTok is my main focus

right now while we're doing video.

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And it's to your point now, you know,

what used to be a Twitter chat is

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now going on in comment sections.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yeah,

that's, that's a key thing.

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And of course you need to, you

know, sort of step over the muddy

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puddles of the social media.

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Um, because, you know, there's, it's

like if you're at a rowdy bar, you know,

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having a good conversation over here and

someone has a fist fight over there and

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someone's throwing a chair over there, but

if you just duck and the chair goes over.

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Amanda Abella: That's a really

great way of putting it.

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I've never heard anyone describe it

that way, but it's very accurate.

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Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

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Um, yeah, something else I wanted

to ask you about in the, in the

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notes you sent ahead of time.

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Um, when I asked you what's your best

networking tip, you said learn sales

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and communication skills because you

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and 250 of them needed that advice.

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Amanda Abella: Yeah, so one of the

things that I decided to do, um, you

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know, after the first business, I moved

into the second business and the second

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business, I started teaching people,

you know, how I basically how I built

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the first one, because they were asking.

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So I'm like, great, I'm going to start

teaching marketing and, and sales.

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And I started becoming known as.

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Teaching actual sales

and communication skills.

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So a lot of people teach online

marketing and it's great, but

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marketers don't know how to sell.

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Um, they don't know how to have that

people conversation part of things,

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which a lot of people are struggling

with now because they're dealing

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with more challenges in the economy.

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Or maybe a more jaded marketplace

or buyers in general are feeling

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more apprehensive because they're

hearing all the world news and

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they're realizing, oh, snap.

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I don't know how to sell.

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I don't know how to have a

conversation with another human being.

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So, I became known for helping people with

that and our clients get insane results,

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even just in the last group that we ran

of that sales training, they generated an

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extra 6 figures in sales in a few weeks.

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And it was, and it was from

very simple things, right?

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Like learning how to ask the right

questions in a sales conversation.

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Um, so that business started blowing

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crashed and burned and realized that

I needed to build more leverage.

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So I had been networking and doing

the one on one stuff for a long time.

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And I realized that it was time to

scale and kind of transition out of

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that, um, you know, number one to

have a more sustainable business.

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I'd gone through a lot of like

family health crisis and issues and

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life, you know, life is life things.

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So I was like, great.

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I need to build in more sustainability.

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I'm going to have to start moving toward,

you know, selling to groups or having

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other people promote for me or using

social media more strategically instead

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of these one on one conversations,

but there's a transition period.

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That occurs when you're

going through that.

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And my transition period was I want to

build a network of referral partners.

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I want to build a network of people

who that I can rely on to promote

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my business to their people.

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And then it's going to

bring business over my way.

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So, I have these advocates basically,

um, and the reason I wanted to do that

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is number 1, you could have a bunch of

people promoting you at the same time.

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Uh, number 2.

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You, they can promote you over and

over and over again throughout time.

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Number three, I don't have

to pay money in Facebook ads.

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Number four, those guys can turn into

clients based on the conversations.

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So there were lots of benefits to this.

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The problem was I had to find them.

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Um, and, uh, Really funny story.

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Um, I was going through

a challenging time.

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I went to dinner with a friend and, um,

he had mentioned he runs like an eight

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figure publishing company and he mentioned

to me, hey, anything that you need,

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just shoot me a text and I'll help you.

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Networking.

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Right.

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Like you meet people like

that who want to help you.

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So I had been approached with this

idea of doing like a joint venture with

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somebody from back from my finance days.

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Like, Hey, if you promote this

and we do this, I'll give you

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a cut and we can do vice versa.

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So I sent to this friend of mine,

a text message, the new friend.

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And I was like, Hey, have you heard of

like referral partners or joint ventures?

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Like, I'm not sure how to do this.

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I don't know how to put this together.

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And he's like, Oh, not only

do I know how to do that.

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I built a 20 million company.

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Just based on referral partners.

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Here's my course, right?

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And you just gave it to me for free.

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Out of, like, the goodness and generosity

of his heart in that course, right?

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He basically said, hey, you know, I was

doing, like, 100 meetings a week now.

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I was like, okay, so I sort of cold.

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It's like, if you've got a 20Million

dollar company, I'm just going to go

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all in and see what this is about.

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Like, I'm a big experimenter.

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I wasn't getting to 100 calls a week.

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Maybe I was getting to about 50 a week.

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Um, and I, and I would find, yes,

um, referral partner calls, right?

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So basically getting to know them

and being like, hey, I think we

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could make good referral partners.

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I had no freaking idea what I was

doing, but I did know how to at least

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have a conversation with people.

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And I realized that if other

people really had no idea.

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What they were doing because

I would go into these calls.

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I mean, I was doing up to 10 a day and I

would go into these calls and I would ask

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people like, Hey, you know, I think we

can make really great referral partners.

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Here's what I do in my business.

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You know, I think this is

how we can collaborate.

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Tell me what you've got going

on in your business and they

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couldn't answer the damn question.

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Yep.

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And I was like, how do people make money?

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They have no idea how to talk to people.

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They don't know how to talk

about their businesses.

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They don't know how to

talk about what they do.

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They don't know how to talk

about their client results.

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They don't know how to talk about

how they collaborate with others.

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They literally have no idea.

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So in realizing that, I ended up

doing 400 calls, but that one of those

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calls led to a group of joint venture

partners, and that led to another

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group, and that led to another group.

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I just had to go through

like 200 to find them first.

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Um, but I got a lot of data and what

I ended up realizing, um, again, to

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your point is that most people do not

know how to have conversations with

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other human beings about what they do

for a living or what they do for work

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or what makes them stand out or how

they collaborate with other people.

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And I was really flabbergasted because

I was like, how do you all make money?

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I don't understand.

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Like, I don't understand like

how you make, like you must

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make money by accident because.

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Like, I'm trying to have a conversation

and you can't so what ended up

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happening was in that process.

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I ended up creating, like, I

started kind of figuring out my own

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little process for finding referral

partners and things like that.

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And I put that into an 8 step

guide, everything from finding them.

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To how do we do this in a more leveraged

way other than DMing people on LinkedIn.

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To here's how you have that conversation.

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Here is sentence one.

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Here is sentence two.

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Here is sentence three.

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I mean, I broke it down to that degree.

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And then here's what

you do after the call.

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Because that was another thing.

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They sucked at the follow up after.

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So I ended up putting everything

into a guide, which everybody

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listening can get for free.

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Um, and I started experimenting

and tweaking the guide.

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And what I ended up, I eventually

did end up finding the right people.

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I built a network of about 100 referral

partners, uh, has literally kept my

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business doubling, uh, between that

and the automations we've built while

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I've been in the process of moving to

another country and renovating a house,

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maybe working at 10 percent capacity.

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The business has kept going and it's been

because of that referral partner process.

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And also a lot of the marketing

and sales automations.

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We spent a couple of years

building on the back end.

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Thank you.

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But, you know, once you finally nail

it, which my hope with that guide

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is that people avoid the painful

conversations I needed to have first

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before I found my people, before

I found the referral partners.

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Um, that's my hope is that you avoid all

of that and that you actually get results.

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But once you nail it, I mean, one of

our partners sent us 300 leads in a day.

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Michael Whitehouse: Wow.

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So, yeah.

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So, uh, you said you have, you have

over a hundred partners and one

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thing, when people get into the jv,

the joint venture space, they often

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hear a lot about reciprocation.

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You know, you Mm-Hmm, , I'll

promote you if you promote me.

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And, um, I assume you're not

promoting back a hundred partners.

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Amanda Abella: Yeah.

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So it's interesting that you bring that

up because I had no idea what I was doing.

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I went, number one, I used sales

brain, and number two, I was

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gonna be the data collection year.

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Because I guess because I have a

sales background, I just approach

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everything with sales statistics, right?

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So I'd already done like 200

calls and most of them sucked.

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So I just assumed going into these groups

that it was going to be the same thing.

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So what I ended up doing was I

booked like 50 calls in two days.

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Assuming half of them were going to suck.

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Um, and that's actually not what happened

because once you get into the higher

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level, I was literally shocked within two

weeks, I got booked out for like a year,

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but I was not expecting that to happen.

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experimentation year of what

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works and what doesn't, which

we've now put into that guide.

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Hey, this leads to a lot of leads,

but maybe not enough sales or this

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leads to less leads, but more sales.

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Now I have that data because I've promoted

so many people and I've also, and they've

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also promoted for me, or I know, hey,

this type of referral partnership works.

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This one does not.

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Now I have the data.

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Right.

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going to be more scalable about it.

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We're literally just making the

calendar of like, all right, this works.

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Right.

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And instead of maybe doing 1 webinar

a month for a referral partner or 1 a

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week for 4 different referral partners.

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We're going to have 15 people promoting

the same event at the same time.

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Yeah, that and we know exactly who

those people are going to be and it just

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requires more planning ahead of time.

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because I just didn't have the data,

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the data and I can make it more

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sustainable and scalable over time.

447

Michael Whitehouse: Okay, so, so do

you promote, um, do you promote all

448

your referral partners or is it?

449

Amanda Abella: We try to, yeah,

we, we, Yeah, we try our best.

450

Um, and again, I just

use sales brain, right?

451

So I might overbook myself knowing

that like half of them are going to

452

fall through because some emergency

happens or somebody had to push

453

their launch back or, or something.

454

1 thing I've noticed about when

people try and use referral partners

455

is they don't have enough of them.

456

Right?

457

So they will rearrange their whole

schedule for like 1 partner, but then

458

that 1 partner has an emergency and

your business is screwed that month.

459

Okay.

460

That's why I wanted over a hundred because

that's life and that's what happens.

461

It's the same way that

you're in sales, right?

462

You're not going to bank on one deal.

463

You're going to have a

hundred people in a pipeline.

464

Michael Whitehouse: But, but

how are you able to, I mean,

465

there's 365 days in a year.

466

So, and you obviously need to

promote your own stuff, I assume.

467

Yeah.

468

So how are you promoting

just by sheer volume?

469

How are you?

470

Promoting them.

471

Yeah.

472

Amanda Abella: So we've tested

different ways of doing things.

473

One of the things that we've done, for

example, is like a joint webinar, right?

474

So, for example, we're promoting

each other at the same time,

475

like a schedule we can follow.

476

again, it was experimentation year.

477

478

So now we have an actual schedule

where we can plug people in or

479

another thing that we've tested is

maybe we'll mention five different

480

referral partners in a newsletter

or we'll have them on the podcast.

481

Like there's so many different

ways that we've learned to do this.

482

But that's after, you know, a

year, 18 months of experimentation.

483

And then once we experiment, now

we can create more of a process

484

to make sure everybody is getting

handled to the best of their ability.

485

And again, Knowing that not all 100 of

them are going to be able to do their

486

launch next year because life happens.

487

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah, well,

and I, I think what you just shared

488

there, some people listening may be

like, wait, you can, that's possible.

489

Like you could promote a

hundred partners in a year.

490

Cause, cause the, the old, the old

model kind of what seems like the

491

tradition, the traditional model.

492

I mean, Nothing in the industry

is more than 20 years old, but the

493

traditional model seems to be, you

know, this launch, it's 18 days long.

494

It takes up your, your list for a month.

495

And you can't possibly promote more

than nine people a year because, um,

496

because, you know, one of the conventional

wisdoms I've heard is if you promote

497

someone, you will lose between six and

8 percent of your list on subscribe

498

every time you promote someone.

499

Amanda Abella: Which it did jack up

my list in the first six months of

500

the year until my partner and that's

part of what we figured out until

501

we were like, okay, there's got to

be other ways that we can do this.

502

So we found those other ways.

503

Right.

504

And I think that goes to your point

where people, people suck at networking.

505

They also suck at creativity.

506

Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

507

Yeah.

508

Well, and that's, that's

one thing I looked at.

509

I'm like, I, I don't want to lose.

510

A 12th of my list because

I promoted someone else.

511

Maybe if someone says I'm leaving

your list, I don't like you.

512

That's no big deal.

513

I call that an authentic unsubscribe.

514

I authentically don't like you, Michael.

515

I don't want to be on your list.

516

The inauthentic unsubscribe is I

don't want to hear about Amanda again.

517

I'm out.

518

I'm like, but you see the, uh, my, cause

if they got on your list, they want you.

519

They got on my list.

520

They want me.

521

And so, yeah, I.

522

I got creative to how can I promote people

and not have them fly out the door because

523

they're tired of all these promotions.

524

Amanda Abella: Or maybe you put

an event together or something.

525

There's so many ways that you can

do this, but you know, people,

526

people lack creativity because

they're trying to follow like

527

this one set pattern of things.

528

Um, but that's why I'm a big

fan of experimentation to see

529

what works and what doesn't.

530

And then you can make a plan from there.

531

And also like.

532

I know I'm going to drop

the ball at some point.

533

I don't just don't make myself feel

horrible for it because that's life.

534

Yep.

535

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah.

536

That that's huge.

537

Yeah.

538

I think that's that creativity

and experimentation thing is, is

539

key because some people are like,

Oh, I'm going to follow them.

540

And especially the way the economy has

changed, the way markets changing, the

541

way technology is changing, just because

someone has an eight figure business

542

doesn't mean there you can emulate them

because you know, maybe they made all

543

their contacts on Twitter chats and yeah.

544

So yeah, let's go out and

Twitter chats and, uh, and.

545

Replicate that.

546

Oh, you can't, you can't anymore.

547

Huh?

548

That's crazy.

549

Yeah.

550

You know, I, I used to meet all my,

uh, I used to meet everyone at Kaldor.

551

Oh, Kaldor's closed.

552

Amanda Abella: Yeah, and also to your

point, one of the things that we've

553

noticed, because a part of what we

teach our clients now is how to sell

554

one to many instead of one to one,

because once you nail it one to one,

555

now we got to start talking one to

many, or there's only so many hours in

556

a day and you only have so much energy.

557

Yep.

558

So we have to start having that

conversation and 1 of the things that

559

we've realized we have sent over 100,

000 emails this year between ourselves,

560

our referral partners and for clients

and we've noticed right that when it

561

comes to the referral partner thing, uh,

people tend to screw up in a few ways.

562

Right?

563

So number 1, your copy sounds

like freaking everybody else.

564

There's nothing special about this.

565

There's nothing that exciting.

566

You sound like every other JV.

567

I've had.

568

You need to go repack these emails.

569

That's number one.

570

Number two, there's no personal story.

571

There's no personal like

connection really with the people.

572

So we've noticed that's a problem.

573

Um, and we've also noticed that the

systems on the backend just kind of

574

suck and no one knows what's going on.

575

No one's tracking anything.

576

Um, and also just like the maintaining

of the relationship, people

577

are generally not very good at.

578

So one of the things that I love to

do, um, and this is something we're

579

is having JB partners on my podcast.

580

And then they can promote me to

their list that way and drive traffic

581

to a podcast and I can promote

them to my list that way, right?

582

And then they get odd

eyeballs and things like that.

583

And then number one, it's a

little bit more evergreen.

584

And number two, it's not as assaulting.

585

Yeah.

586

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah, no,

that makes a lot of sense.

587

Um, and, and yeah, those are definitely

very real, real challenge with the, with

588

the tracking and the, I mean, I'm always

amazed by when I have to chase people

589

down, um, for, for copy, for links, for.

590

Amanda Abella: It's amazing how often you

have to chase people down for copy, right?

591

And then they get mad at you when, you

know, it's like insane how like not

592

organized people are on the backend,

but that's why I created that guide.

593

Because that people can get for free by

listening to this because those were all

594

the problems that I kept running into.

595

Well,

596

Michael Whitehouse: and even if

you have all that getting data, so

597

I'll vote someone and did it work?

598

I don't know.

599

Did anyone look on it?

600

I've, I've started using pretty links

for all of my affiliate partners,

601

so I can check my own data and

say, how many clicks did I get?

602

But that doesn't tell me how many

opt ins or, or anything else.

603

Yeah.

604

So

605

Amanda Abella: we can help you with that.

606

Yeah.

607

So one of the things we've even

started suggesting to our podcast

608

guests is like, Hey, we suggest having

like a specific link just for us.

609

Here's some tools you can use,

and then you can track what's

610

working and what's not working.

611

And then you can.

612

Double and triple down on what's working.

613

So one of the things I've had to learn

how to do, cause I'm definitely more

614

of a creative person is to get more

into the data and the analytics and

615

then learning how to combine the two.

616

Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

617

But even if I can track the clicks,

that doesn't tell me what converted.

618

So they may click on it cause I

told them to, but that doesn't

619

mean they signed up for it.

620

Cause that's one.

621

Amanda Abella: I've got

you at the end of this.

622

There's there's tools for that.

623

I got you.

624

Michael Whitehouse: So when I

promote a summit or when I, when

625

I run a summit, I should say.

626

Uh, I send updates to my speakers every

day for the 14 days leading up to it, and

627

every one of them contains a link to the

document with the swipe copy and their

628

affiliate links, because I used to do

like, I don't want to send it every day.

629

So I'll send it every few days,

invariably, if I sent every three

630

days on one of the two off days,

like, what's my affiliate link again?

631

I sent it Monday.

632

I sent it Saturday.

633

I sent it Thursday, but now

I said it every single day.

634

Because I understand, when I speak

on a summit, the summit's one of the

635

things I'm doing, it's not a priority,

it's not a main focus, it's one of the

636

things I'm doing, and I understand that

my speakers, they're not living for my

637

summit, they're, they are, I'm giving

them exposure, they're certainly an equal

638

exchange, but it is barely on their list

of priorities, because it's one of the

639

things they're doing, and so I need to

send them 17 emails, To say, Hey, 17 days

640

of the summit, 16 days of the summit,

15 days of the summit as my job to keep

641

them engaged and keep them informed.

642

And yeah, most when I promote people,

I regularly, I will get to a day before

643

the thing's supposed to happen and get

that even be like, so how are you doing?

644

Like.

645

Who are you?

646

What are we talking about?

647

Amanda Abella: Yeah, exactly.

648

You've already forgotten who they are.

649

You've moved on.

650

It's like a whole thing.

651

And you could do the best that you

can to get them on the calendar.

652

And even still, you got to go

follow up with people, right?

653

Because they're not.

654

And that was one of the big

issues, um, I would run into

655

with promoting other people.

656

And again, it's why I

put this guy together.

657

So people don't run into those problems.

658

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah.

659

Yeah.

660

You got to remember your

partner, your people promoting

661

you, it's not their business.

662

It's your business.

663

You care about your business every

day, all the time, day and night.

664

They care about your business when you

remind them for a few minutes afterwards.

665

Like, I'm happy to promote partners, but

I got a lot of people to keep in my head.

666

Amanda Abella: Exactly, right?

667

There's a lot of things going

on, and there's just, with life,

668

with business, with everything.

669

Right?

670

So, yeah, you know, it is a

little complicated sometimes

671

to keep it all organized.

672

But, you know, if you know how to

do it for sales, and you know how

673

to stay organized with leads for

sales and CRMs and things like

674

that, JB's is not much different.

675

Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

676

That's if you know how to do that,

of course, and that's that's a

677

big if yes, but but you mentioned

organization and we mentioned the

678

frail limitations of the human brain.

679

Um, one thing we haven't talked

much about is automation.

680

Modern technology.

681

And, uh, and you know,

we have robots for this.

682

So talk a little bit about how you use

automation to, um, see, I believe in the

683

notes, you said you cut 84 percent of

your workload by automating sales tasks.

684

Amanda Abella: I did.

685

So yes, I'm a big, I'm

a big fan of the robots.

686

So, um, when I hit my big burnout, um,

after my business started skyrocketing,

687

doing the sales training, Um, you know,

it was, my business was exploding.

688

My dad was in and out of the hospital.

689

Like it just wasn't a sustainable model.

690

I had not built in a lot of

the systems and automations and

691

support that I really needed.

692

So of course, Amanda crashed and burned,

um, after a six figure sales month.

693

And, um, what I realized

I had this idea, right.

694

And I was like, well, what if I could

just create an automated salesperson?

695

Right, like, what would it look like

if I just took these 15 years of sales

696

experience where I know how to pick

up the phone where I know how to have

697

a conversation where I know how to

talk to someone in the DMS qualify

698

them and get them booked on a call.

699

I know all this stuff like the back of

my hand because I've done so much of it.

700

But what if I could do that?

701

Right.

702

And somehow automate most of it, because

one of the things that I started to

703

realize in teaching a lot of my client

sales is that most people just don't

704

do enough to get the sale, right?

705

So they'll get an email from

somebody, a bunch of automated emails,

706

but you should be calling them.

707

You should be texting them, right?

708

You should be doing a lot more

than just sending a generic email

709

campaign that everybody has.

710

Right?

711

So that's what I would do.

712

I would send a DM, right?

713

I would make a phone call.

714

I would do a text, but I

started running into a problem.

715

And the problem is if you get 300

leads in a day, you're not about to

716

bang out 300 phone calls the next day.

717

So I started running into a capacity

again, story of my life, so I had

718

been in this process where I was

trying to figure out how to create

719

this automated salesperson, right?

720

Where I was like, here's all the

manual stuff that I know how to do in

721

sales that a good salesperson would.

722

So worth their salt should be doing to get

a deal across the table, which most people

723

don't in the online marketing space.

724

But I'm going to figure out a way

to automate as much of this as I

725

can and make it sound like a person.

726

Now, it was easier for me to make it

sound like a person because I've done

727

so many sales calls for a decade.

728

So I want to be clear.

729

Do not skip that part of business.

730

I see so many people skipping

that and then when they try to

731

automate and scale, it doesn't work.

732

You don't have enough data.

733

I had a decade of data to make this work.

734

So, um, I'd kind of tried to

figure this out on my own.

735

And then a year ago, I met my now

partner who I'm with in Mexico

736

through one of those 400 JV calls.

737

Right, and we started off as, you

know, work colleagues and it turned

738

into friends, then it turned into more

because, well, that's a whole other story.

739

Right?

740

But 1 of the things that

I had said to him, right?

741

Was like, I'm really trying to build,

like, this automated salesperson

742

and nobody seems to understand what

the hell I'm trying to do because.

743

Online marketers don't know

sales and I come from a sales

744

background for crying out loud.

745

I came from finance, very traditional

sales background, and he did exactly what

746

I was trying to do because he used to

build out CRMs as a software engineer.

747

So I was like, um, okay, well,

there needs to be emails.

748

And so it was a

collaborative effort, right?

749

Where he's like, all right, well, here are

the kinds of emails that work really well.

750

They are me, you know, 10xing

the businesses of people with

751

100, 000 people on an email list.

752

Here's what works really well.

753

Let's create that.

754

Then I was like, okay, but we

got to add in a text message, or

755

we have to add in some sort of a

voicemail or something like that.

756

we have tools to automate all of that.

757

So the robots are doing the

work, but people think it's you.

758

So if I get 300 leads in one day over

the course of the next week, they're

759

going to get an email campaign.

760

They will get a text

message within two hours.

761

They will get a voicemail

drop to call us back.

762

We can now do campaigns with text messages

and voicemail drops to, for example, get

763

people, um, A conversion event, uh, our

current effortless sales engine program,

764

which is where we teach all of these

things got filled up because of all the

765

automations where people maybe found us

on YouTube four months ago and have been

766

going through all these automations.

767

Then they saw us with all

these JVs and then they were

768

like, here's my credit card.

769

Michael Whitehouse: Oh, okay.

770

Yeah.

771

And, and, well, like one thing you

mentioned there sort of almost in

772

passing, um, is one of the things

I really believe is integrity.

773

The fact that you use the system

to sell the system that you're,

774

you're, you know, nowadays people

DM me and say, I'm going to teach

775

you an amazing Facebook ad method.

776

Amanda Abella: We eat our

own dog food around here.

777

Huh?

778

That's what we call it.

779

We call it eating our own dog food.

780

Yes.

781

Yep.

782

Around here.

783

Yeah.

784

Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

785

Yep.

786

The best ones is the people who DM me

to tell me that they have an amazing

787

methods you never need to DM again.

788

Like, yeah, can't work that well.

789

Amanda Abella: Yeah, exactly.

790

Can't work that well.

791

But you know, this current, I mean,

to give you an idea of how effective

792

this system is behind the scenes,

we're about to sell this thing out.

793

And in the last three months, I moved to

another country was traveling because we

794

didn't know where we were going to live.

795

Then we had to find a house.

796

Then we find a house.

797

Then we have to renovate the house.

798

We've barely been able to work.

799

In the last three months and this thing,

I've barely been on social media and

800

definitely not in a strategic way.

801

And this thing is still about to sell out.

802

And that's because of the JB partners.

803

Like I mentioned, we're sending

traffic our way and we plan that

804

ahead of time and the YouTube.

805

So being very strategic with search

engine optimization and things like that

806

and all the automations on the backend.

807

Wow.

808

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah.

809

Yes.

810

Yeah.

811

The, the army of robots

are marching along for you.

812

Amanda Abella: Yeah, and

that's the goal, right?

813

Um, a lot of people talk about

ease and flow in business and, you

814

know, just being able to relax.

815

Well, you, it doesn't mean you got to

build the thing first and put the work

816

up front and it's hard and it sucks.

817

I mean, there were some moments

where we were up until, I don't know.

818

14, 15, 16 hours trying to figure this

thing out with all the tech issues or just

819

me experimenting with 400 calls, right?

820

So I did all the experimenting.

821

So our clients wouldn't have to, to

find what works and what doesn't.

822

We have the data to prove that

this business, we're eating our

823

own dog food has doubled month

over month in the last quarter.

824

And we've only been able to work

at 10 percent capacity while

825

we moved to another country.

826

Michael Whitehouse: That is a pretty

good, uh, pretty good case study.

827

Amanda Abella: Yeah.

828

And, you know, now we're ready to

start sharing that stuff on social

829

because now is when we have the time.

830

Yep.

831

We don't have to rewire a whole house now.

832

It's all good.

833

We can get back to social media.

834

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

835

What else?

836

I liked, um, one thing you

mentioned about talking about

837

the copy, uh, was Was a personal

stories that, yeah, a lot of copy.

838

Um, and I, I never know exactly what

I figure on exactly what is, but it's

839

like the, the, the sales story, if

you know what I mean, it happened to

840

someone at some time, but it could be

anyone, but it's really no one, you

841

know, where they say, you know, when I

was younger, this challenge happened.

842

And then I overcame the challenge

with this amazing solution.

843

And now you should come to my program.

844

Like younger, like.

845

Last week, last month,

last year, last century?

846

I don't know.

847

As opposed to when I see a story

that says, Last Tuesday, I was

848

out with my dog, and, like, that's

something I try to do on my emails.

849

Is I'll be like, here's a picture of

my dog and this thing happened with

850

the dog and people like, oh my God,

he's a real person with a real dog.

851

Look at that.

852

Amanda Abella: Yeah, a real person

with a real dog, like literally one

853

of our biggest irritations this year.

854

And again, we've tested this with over

here's we go with the data and eating our

855

own dog food tested over 100, 000 emails.

856

This year alone.

857

And that was the common issue is

everybody sounds like everybody else.

858

And before we started recording,

you had mentioned that, um,

859

what was it that you said?

860

You'd mentioned that being authentic

is, um, it's like the most valuable

861

thing people can do, but it's

not an easy, what was it that

862

you said about being authentic?

863

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah.

864

So, so it was really good.

865

Yeah.

866

Cause you were talking about how

marketers have ruined everything.

867

They ruined SEO and then they

ruined blogging and they ruined,

868

and, and that's why authenticity

is becoming more and more powerful.

869

Cause as you have more and more tools

to help you find, especially things

870

like Tik TOK, there, there's no, you

can't game the Tik TOK algorithm cause

871

it's AI based and it keeps moving.

872

So it's built around.

873

If you're authentically sharing a

message, it will find your audience.

874

Um, and so more and more people

are sniffing through all the,

875

all the BS and all the copy

and all the, the, the formulas.

876

And once they see the same formula

for the third time, it's like if they

877

went to, you know, if they went to

one Burger King and didn't like it.

878

And they see a second Burger King, they're

like, no, I don't like Burger King.

879

They, they read the same type of copy.

880

They're like, Oh, I've

seen this kind of copy.

881

I don't like that.

882

And so, but if you're you, there's only

one of you that ever seen you before.

883

And then back, Oh, this is new.

884

This is interesting.

885

Amanda Abella: It's interesting

that you bring that up because

886

I'm like hacking Instagram right

now, because this is my, my fun.

887

I used to be a blogger.

888

Now I get to do this again, era.

889

And it's interesting that you say that

because I was doing some research, right?

890

I'm like, Hey, what's performing

well on Instagram reels.

891

What's working, what's

trending that just studying.

892

Right.

893

And I saw like in three

different instances, right?

894

So with three different kinds

of reels, I saw the same exact

895

thing, seven or eight times from

seven or eight different people.

896

Where were they performing?

897

I mean, it seems that they

were performing, right?

898

Because that's something that was

trending and it was really valuable

899

content, but I would go to the caption.

900

Like, this caption is literally exactly

like the caption I just read from this

901

other person, like, five minutes ago.

902

Michael Whitehouse: Yep.

903

Yeah.

904

And then it fails to, well, so that, that

thing, that's part of why people do it.

905

Like if it's working, if, if a platform

rewards inauthenticity, which is,

906

that's why I've, I've leaned towards

a tick tock over Instagram because

907

Instagram rewards, um, you know,

paying the praying to the Zuckerberg

908

God and tick tock rewards, unique,

nothing uniqueness and authenticity.

909

Amanda Abella: Yeah, I mean I haven't

like so i've been on instagram for

910

a while So i'm testing that one.

911

I seem to have a rhythm going on

youtube Right, and then now, you know

912

tiktok will be the next foray Yeah,

but to your point like literally

913

this week while i'm creating the

marketing calendar for the next month.

914

I ran into that very problem on instagram

915

Michael Whitehouse: Interesting,

but I think especially with emails.

916

Um, you know if when I open my my email

box I mean I end up on all kinds of

917

people's lists because I meet all kinds

of people and I'm like, yeah, sure.

918

I'll get a new list.

919

Let's see what you're up to.

920

And then I discovered their list

is nothing but generic, bland,

921

sanitized marketing content.

922

And you know, they have no opinions.

923

They have no story.

924

I don't learn anything about them.

925

Um, I I've encountered partners who

you could get on this for six months

926

and learn nothing about them because

all they did was promote partners.

927

Because they're entirely in this

reciprocity like other people

928

promoted them and they promote

out so there was no value content.

929

It was just by this, by this,

by this, by this, by this.

930

Amanda Abella: And again, that goes

back to that lack of creativity.

931

So I'll give a little behind

the scenes if you're up for it.

932

Sure.

933

Of the conversation we had before we even

got here because of course you're going to

934

935

We already talked about that, but what

did I say before we started recording?

936

I said, Hey, and this is a very

simple thing people can do and

937

they do not do, but I learned this

back from my blogging media days.

938

I was like, Hey, is it okay if I

record this locally on my end and I can

939

turn this into a bunch of short form

videos and we'll promote it for you.

940

I'll send you the folder.

941

You can do whatever you want

with the short form videos.

942

I'm promoting you to my people

without necessarily, you know,

943

burning through my email list.

944

Yep.

945

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah.

946

Well, that's the thing is

it doesn't burn your list.

947

You can provide value.

948

I promote I promote, uh, an

average of seven partners a day.

949

So there are, I send daily emails and

in almost every one of them, there's

950

at least seven links you could click

on that would go to some kind of opt

951

in page, sales page, registration page.

952

Amanda Abella: That's

another way you can do it.

953

Right.

954

And if that works for you, cool, because

there's a lot of email marketers out

955

here who will say, don't do that.

956

Don't send seven links in an email.

957

And I'm like, do you whatever

experiment testing, whatever works

958

for you is what works for you.

959

Michael Whitehouse: The

crazy thing is that.

960

One offer is a pitch,

seven offers is a catalog.

961

So if I have seven offers there, you know,

if I come to you and I say, Hey, I've

962

got a shirt, do you want to buy a shirt?

963

You're like, why are

you selling me a shirt?

964

But if I put a thousand shirts in

a building and I put a sign on the

965

front of the building, you walk

in and say, show me your shirts.

966

Amanda Abella: Oh, that's really smart.

967

That's very creative.

968

I like that.

969

Michael Whitehouse: I learned

it from Ellen Finkelstein.

970

So it's not original, but Oh yeah.

971

Yeah.

972

Nothing's original.

973

Everything's learned from someone else.

974

Um, but yeah, that's what I discovered.

975

And so she teaches that method.

976

And when I started doing it,

I called the resource letter.

977

I can't remember if she calls it

that or something else, but when I

978

started doing that, um, I'd send out

an email and like, Hey, let's try it.

979

I'm promoting seven partners at once.

980

And I got emails back saying, thank

you for providing all this value.

981

And I'm thinking these

are all affiliate links.

982

I'm not doing anything generous here.

983

I'm promoting seven partners.

984

You know, they're seeing it as this

is on seven things that might interest

985

me, seven things that might benefit me.

986

And also it's because it's, it's value.

987

If you send that generic email,

that's, uh, that's, you know,

988

You know, George had a problem.

989

George doesn't exist, of course.

990

George had a problem, and that problem was

really bad, but he used our system, and

991

now he doesn't have the problem anymore.

992

Amanda Abella: Tom makes

six figures your first year.

993

Okay, well, that's overdone.

994

Michael Whitehouse: Like,

there's no value in that.

995

That's completely overdone.

996

Yeah, that's, even when I propose

something directly, I'll share a story.

997

I'll be like, you know, um, last

Tuesday, I was talking to Amanda,

998

and she was telling me about her

program, and what I liked about it

999

was, And then we talked in the podcast.

There's a link to the podcast.

And now there's a masterclass

coming up next week.

And you should check it out.

So it feels like you under

Amanda Abella: you understand

how to people though.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

People who understand how to

people know how to do this.

They think of those little details in

order to maintain the relationship,

not in a way you're trying to

take from me by no means, right.

Or exploit me or anything.

Cause I know people are afraid of that.

It's just very simple, basic things.

The same way that I was like,

Hey, my team and I can turn

this into short form videos.

You can use it on your social media.

Here you go.

Have fun.

Right.

But it's these little things that

people do not think about because

they do not know how to people.

Yep.

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah, that was the

first thing I learned of the first thing,

but the thing that changed everything

with email was a shift from I'm emailing a

market to I'm emailing a list of friends.

And the fact that I built my list

through networking, like most of

those people I'd done one to ones with

who opted in that also affect like,

I don't want to burn these people.

I've met them.

Like these are real people.

So I thought, okay, I'm sending

an email to hundreds of people.

I know it's not an audience.

It's a community.

It's like, I'm sending it out to

hundreds or thousands of my friends.

How am I going to talk to them?

Well, I'm not going to

send them generic content.

I'm not going to cut and paste.

I'd never use swipe copy

because it feels plagiarism.

If I copy your text and put my

name under it, that's plagiarism.

Right?

Like it's inauthentic.

And if it's a launch and seven

other people do the same thing,

now we all look like schmucks.

Um, but even if it's by itself, you

still like, that's not what you say.

Is that what you sound like?

So now they're thinking that's my writing.

And that's how I'm talking to them.

And I'm like, that's not my writing.

Now, what I will do is that what I call

a JV guest letter, I will sometimes

take, I will quote it and I'll, I'll put

their headshot next to it and their copy.

And I'll say, you know, let

me share with you what, what

Amanda's doing in her own words.

And then there's four paragraphs

next to your headshot.

And then afterwards I'd be like, and

now you'll see why I'm so excited

about sharing this, go check it out.

So

Amanda Abella: yeah, see,

but that's, that makes sense.

That's creative.

There's some sort of personal story.

Most people are copying pasting.

Granted, I will call myself out.

but I was also experimenting.

Remember I had no data, right?

So I was like, let me experiment.

So maybe it works.

Right.

I was like, I have no data, so

I'm going to test this and see

what works and what doesn't.

And after sending those

hundred thousand emails, now

we have some pretty solid data.

That we can teach to our clients

based on us experimenting and being

the guinea pig and eating our own dog

food as we like to say around here.

But, um, to your point, yes, those

personal stories are everything.

I mean, 1 of the reasons we're starting

another brand called entrepreneur expat is

because when I started sharing that I had

moved to Mexico, I haven't even shared the

full on house renovation yet, but I will,

um, I will because it's a story, right?

It's a story and I can, and I can turn

that life story into marketing and that's

a whole other skill that requires a lot

of creativity and every, I feel like

everything that we've talked about in

this podcast episode are just skills and

it's skills that people need to practice.

It's skills that people

need to invest in learning.

It's skills people need to

experiment with and they just,

they just got to put in the reps.

Michael Whitehouse: Yeah, absolutely.

Um, so I think we've been talking

for like three and a half hours.

Uh, so feels like it.

We should probably wrap

up but but in a good way.

Um, we can certainly talk longer.

But as we record this, it's Halloween

and my daughter wants to go trick

or treating as people listen to it.

It's not Halloween.

So they'll be all confused.

Amanda Abella: But it's the mortals here.

They don't do Halloween.

They do the other.

Well, they kind of sort

of do Halloween in Mexico.

But the other was more those

is more of a thing here.

Michael Whitehouse: Okay,

go to Mexico someday for it.

Anyway, but yeah.

No time for that now.

Um, so you said, so I believe that you

have a link, which is definitely in the

description, although I don't have it in

my hands at this second, but it will be

by the time someone's listening to this.

Amanda Abella: And it will be

a referral partner link, so

you can track all the data.

Michael Whitehouse: So what will

people get if they go to that

link down in the description?

Amanda Abella: So, you're going to

get my free guide that explains the 8

steps that I use to not just find a 100

referral partners, but also manage them

on the back end, which has led to days

where we get up to 300 leads in a day.

And it's a big part of the reason why

this business is doubled month over month,

even while we've been barely able to work.

While we're in the middle of a house

renovation, so it's the 8 step process.

I did the 400 horrible calls.

So you don't have to and

gathered all the data for you.

So you don't have to go

through the torture that I did.

Michael Whitehouse: That's awesome.

And that's the freebie you're offering.

Amanda Abella: That's the

freebie I'm offering, yes.

Michael Whitehouse: Your

program must be amazing.

I assume it's taking that to the next

level and going through it with people.

Amanda Abella: Yeah, actually, the

woman who built Deepak Chopra's

sales team got her hands on it.

And she's like, if people followed this

guide, they would never have a lead

flow problem ever in their business.

Michael Whitehouse: Awesome.

Well, so definitely, and I'll probably

be sharing that out to my list as

well because that seems like something

my community might be interested in.

So

Amanda Abella: yeah, you do a lot of JVs.

They might want it.

Michael Whitehouse: So

that's, that is awesome.

So thank you very much to go.

So you listeners go look in the, the

description down below or wherever it is

on whatever platform you're watching on.

And if you're somehow watching this in a

platform that doesn't have it, then just.

comment or email me and

I'll make sure you get it.

So thank you so much

for being on the show.

Any final comments?

Amanda Abella: Just have fun with it.

I think people just take themselves

too damn seriously and then that's

where you have the lit lack of

creativity and the lack of people

and just like have some freaking fun.

It's not that serious.

Michael Whitehouse: Have fun.

That is a, if it's not fun, why do it?

Exactly.

Well, thanks for being on.

This has been fun.

Amanda Abella: It definitely has.

I look forward to your event, uh,

in December and also where this

partnership goes and having you

on my podcast for the part too.

Oh,

Michael Whitehouse: I

love being on podcasts.

That way I can talk a lot.

Exactly.

I'll see you there.

for joining us for the guy

who knows a guy podcast.

I'm Michael Whitehouse, the guy

who knows the guy, and I hope

you'll join us in December for the

12th and the 14th for JV Connect.

Go to guy who knows a guy.

For more details now, if it's after

this, it's okay, because we're going

to be doing this event every quarter

to go to guy knows a guy dot com.

See what's new.

See what's happening.

And of course, check the show

notes, learn about our guests and

how you get in touch with them.

Check out our next episode for

more great training, information

and networking tips from Michael

Whitehouse, the guy who knows a guy.